Columbia Kermit/kermit.zip/newsgroups/misc.20020314-20021006/[e-mail]_Thu Jul 4 15:59:34 EDT 2002.msg

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Article: 13505 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc
From: Frank Slootweg <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp.hpux,comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: Need Kermit Diskette for HP-9816 200/300 BASIC Workstation
Date: 4 Jul 2002 14:29:49 GMT
Organization: HP's Dutch Customer Response Center
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[e-mail] wrote:
> In article <ag1dkq$cfn$[e-mail]>, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>> Yesterday I wrote:
>>>   Adding to Mikko's reply:
>
>>>   The HP 9816's "unique diskette format" is HP LIF (Logical Interchange
>>> Format), hence the reference to lifcp (LIF copy). lifcp is mainly
>>> available on *HP-UX* systems.
>>>   So you need *someone* (you?) who has an *HP-UX* (not "unix") system
>>> *with* a floppy drive. If you have that, then:
>> [deleted]
>
>>   I have an HP-UX system with a (1.44MB/720KB) floppy drive, so if I can
>> help, let me know.
>>
>>   Whoever does the work, I think it is best if:
>>
>> - The 'target' sends hir *two* HP 9816 format diskettes:
>>
>>   - One with some ASCII and binary files to be used for testing, with
>>     information about these files, i.e. content (for the ASCII one),
>>     sizes in bytes, (if possible) (UNIX) checksums, like "sum",
>>     "sum -r", "cksume", etc..
>>     If possible include (a) file(s) of the same type as the needed
>>     files, so that the right type can be checked when the work is
>>     (being) done.
>>
>>   - One 'empty', but already (HP 9816) formatted, one.
>>
>> - You send hir the files to be put on the empty diskette. Files should
>>   be in ready-to-use format, i.e. not "hexified". I advice to us a
>>   shar(1) archive, so that transmission/unpacking errors can be
>>   prevented/detected.
>>
>> - The person doing the work sends both diskettes back to the 'target'.
>
> That sounds like a good plan. There's just one catch ... does a
> BASIC-running workstation know how to use a shar file? The hexified file
> might actually be easier to handle, but even better if it could be
> converted to the native format already ... if that can be verified to be
> done correctly.

  I assume(d) that Frank (da Cruz) has the (Kermit program) file(s) to
be put on the (HP 9816 format) diskette, and I assume(d) that he has
access to a 'UNIX' system and 'hence' to shar(1). So if I was "the
person doing the work" then 1) Frank (da Cruz) would make the shar
archive and e-mail it to me, 2) I would put the files on the diskette I
got from 'the target' (i.e. the user in Germany) and I would (normal)
mail the diskette to the target.

>> Note: Coming to think of it, you do not really need an HP-UX system with
>> a diskette drive. You could also do it with:
>>
>> - lifinit and lifcp on any system. (Other posters have mentioned that
>>   there are Linux versions as well. And there are DOS versions as well,
>>   at least like lifcp. Do not know if these (DOS) versions can write LIF
>>   archive *files*.)
>> - Any UNIX/Linux system with a diskette drive of the right type.
>>   You can then lifinit/lifcp stuff to a LIF archive *file* and dd(1) the
>> LIF archive file to the diskette.
>
> There's another problem - the only lifinit I was able to find that works
> at all is the one in HP-UX. And I couldn't successfully _write_ to the
> LIF on Linux either - reading did work though... so this only eliminates
> the part about shipping the floppies to where the HP-UX box is, unless
> someone else can get the other parts to work.

  Yes, ain't HP-UX systems great! :-)

> Can the LIF image indeed be written to a regular file and then dd'd to a
> floppy elsewhere, reliably? I know that doing such a thing with HP
> fbackup would be asking for trouble... oh, sorry, silly me, Ignite-UX
> already does this...

  Yes, that can be done, but you have to make sure that the target can
read the *physical* media. That is why I proposed a 'reference'
diskette, so the person doing the work knows whether it is HD or DD, DS
or SS, or an even more 'obscure' geometry (AFAIK, there were also 270KB
3.5" LIF diskettes, which *may* be more of a problem (because of a
'non-standard' [1] number of sectors per track or/and tracks per side.).

[1] I always find it somewhat funny that it is actually the 'IBM PC'
'standard' 3.5" diskettes which are 'non-standard'. Why? Because the HP
3.5" diskettes *pre-date* the IBM PC ones.

>> Note 2:
>>
>>   I see that the original problem statement was:
>>
>>> On behalf of a user who badly needs to get some scientific data into and
>>> out of an HP 9816 Series 200/300 BASIC workstation.
>>
>>   If this data fits on one diskette (at a time), then perhaps Kermit is
>> not needed at all, and all data transfer can be done by using HP 9816
>> format diskettes on the HP 9816 and a lifcp-like program on the source/
>> target platform. BTW, what *is* the source/target platform (i.e.
>> hardware?, OS?, diskette drive?, etc.).
>
> --
> Mikko Nahkola <[e-mail]>
> My ideas, not my employer's. No warranty. YMMV.
> #include <disclaimer.h>